Who Are the Kurds? Logical Answer is

Share KSS on:

Welcome to Kurdistan sky scrapers forum. Hope you enjoy your visit.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.

Join our community!

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Pages:
1
2
3

Who Are the Kurds? Logical Answer is
Topic Started: 8th June 2013 - 12:42 AM (11,477 Views)
Brendar	8th June 2013 - 12:42 AM Post #1
Serdar Posts: 2,700 Group: Elite Member #6 Joined: Nov 20, 2012 Mood None	Huart evolved to Kurt and Kurt in time evolved to Kurd. by Hamma Mirwaisi and Alison Buckley Today the world's populations are divided according to six different language categories: native American, native Australian, African (known traditionally in the Hebrew as Semitic), Aryan (Europeans use the term "Indo-European'), Sino-Tibetan, and Altaic (Turkish, Mongolian, Japanese, and Korean). Each of them is based in particular cultures and civilizations, most of which are reasonably well known and understood. The Indo-European people of the Middle East, including the Sumerians, Elamites, Guteans, Kassites, Hurrians, Matine (Matiani), Hittites, Lydians, Medians, Achaemenids, Parthians, and Sassanids, built many empires before Islamic Arab armies destroyed much of the culture of the Airyanem civilization. Although it has provided the seeds of and the soil for the growth of much of European and consequently Western civilization, until recently significant knowledge of the origins, historical and cultural influence and ideologies of the ancient Aryans' civilization has been obscured. But when the discovery of the estimated 12,000-year-old archeological site at GÃ¶bekli Tepe atop a mountain ridge northeast of the town of ÅžanlÄ±urfa (formerly Urfa/Edessa) in Turkish-occupied Kurdistan indicated the existence of a complex, self-sufficient society, David Lewis-Williams (Professor of Archaeology at Witwatersrand University in Johannesburg) declared that, "GÃ¶bekli Tepe is the most important archaeological site in the world" (1). The civilization developed steadily until it was challenged sometime prior to 1400 BCE by Egyptian-led colonists from the African continent who were the first of sequential waves to conqueror the lands of the Airyanem peoples, which have since been retained by Semitic peoples. The Hebrew Old Testament records the rise of the Madai (from which came the Matine or Matiani) from Japheth, the third son of Noah (2). By the time of the Hebrew prophet Daniel, the tribe had become the ancient Medes (the ancestors of today's Kurds) and were known symbolically as the Bears ('Huart' in Kurdish). The military forces of the Median Empire were also called 'Huart'. Why did the Medes need a formidable army? Political competition in those days was a microcosm of the present Middle East. Powerful ruling families led by enigmatic kings and some very notable queens managed growing populations requiring stable territorial assets and resources. So the by the late seventh century BCE the Medes had shrewdly aligned themselves with the rising Neo-Babylonian Empire through the marriage of Median King Cyaxares' daughter Princess Amytis to Prince Nebuchadnezzar. Together with the most effective available ally, they conquered their common enemy, Nineveh, in 612 BCE, which became the first year in the Kurdish calendar (3). Years of internal corruption and weak leadership led to a dire conspiracy by Darius the Great and his lackeys, destroying the great Zoroastrian bastion of the Median Empire. The descendants of King Darius, who changed its name to the Archaemenid Empire, ruled for 192 years. The Persians' ascendancy gave way to the Greeks, who eventually modified the Medes' name, but the Persians had to admit that the name 'Kurd' was given to the bravest people of the region. Alexander the Great conquered all the Aryan lands and destroyed the Achaemenid Empire. But the Aryan people resisted the occupiers under the Median leader Baryaxes (Barixas), who reorganized the Median 'Huart' army against the Greek forces in Media. The Governor (satrap) Atro-pates of Media betrayed Baryaxes and several of his partisans to Alexander the Great (4). However, Baryaxes' followers continued attacking the Greek occupiers in a protracted guerrilla war; during the Seleucid Empire the word 'Huart' evolved to 'Kurt'; in time it is evolved into 'Kurd', a name born proudly by the majority Median fighters comprising the rebel armies. Other traitors amongst the Medes and the Parsu (Persians) vied for power by competing for the favour of the Greeks and Macedonians, creating animosity that continues to this day. The division of the Airyanem Vaejah by Macedonian King Cassander and his peer in Asia, Seleucus I Nicator, still exists Although the Jewish, Greek, Arab, Turkish, and Persian scholars' alteration of the Kurds' ancient symbolic name has survived for two and a half thousand years, their attempts to physically, morally, psychologically, and territorially eliminate the Kurds has failed. Consequently, the current serving freedom forces and supporters of 'Huart' are uncannily reflecting the power and purpose of their ancestors in the days of the Median Empire. Armed with a benevolence and wisdom reminiscent of King Cyaxares, the present Kurdish political leader Abdullah Ocolan's campaign from his prison confinement on Imrali Island off Istanbul is upheld militarily in Turkey and Syria from KRG by Murat KarayÄ±lan's guerrilla armies. Once again the footsteps of the valiant Median General Harpagos are traced in the Kandil Mountains as Karayilan prepares to lead the Kurds against the descendants of their ancient Persian and Semitic conquerors in President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad 's Iran. While the Kurds face the ultimate battle for the resumption of the territories of their Median forebears and as the contradictions between the lines of the various historically layered sources of evidence become apparent, a more accurate and credible account of the history of the Airyanem Civilization is in the process of being constructed. Research compiled by Kurdish author and former guerrilla Hamma Mirwaisi now reveals the Kurds' origins and culture in two historical novels written by Australian Alison Buckley. Vashti: Queen of the Ancient Medes and its companion , Esther: Mystery Queen of the Medes, provide historical and cultural information and political inferences about the past and present Airyanem (Kurdish) civilization. Two more volumes, Cyrus the Great and Darius the Great, are planned for the unique, seminal Airyanem Civilisation series . The Unified Kurdish Language: The Language of Zoroaster and Darius the Great, by the same authors, is based on the Prophet Zoroaster's spiritual Song of Gatha and the Behistun cuneiform inscriptions written by Darius the Great on Mount Behistun near Kermanshah in Iran. It promotes the language as an aid for a Middle Eastern Economic Union to extinguish wars and destruction and afford ongoing peace, economic growth, human rights, and just dispersion of wealth for the South Kurdistan. These prospects point to the realization of an apparently relevant yet little-known prophecy in the Old Testament book of Isaiah (5), where the Medes execute a complete victory over the kingdoms ruling the Aryan lands. After centuries of dispossession, displacement, persecution, and ravishment of her peoples and her resources, it would be a just outcome of millennia of conflict. Then Kurds will once more take their rightful place amongst the nations, bearing the name 'Huart' but less of the pain of generations of ignominious loss, including that of their symbolic name. Based on Hamma's analysis, the word Kurds came during the Seleucid Empire. The military used word Kurt instead of Huart to identify rebel fighters, which in time evolved into word 'Kurd', a name born proudly by the majority Median fighters comprising the rebel armies to our time Iranian army is using words Xebar Huart for military readiness. The Persian scholars are saying that work Kurd meaning brave person, large part of Medes people are known today as Kurds and the rest of Medes people are known under other names as Lor, Talish, Azeri and others who believe to be Medes. http://www.opednews.com/author/author43208.html



Worldwar2boy	8th June 2013 - 01:09 AM Post #2
Kurdistan, Yan Naman. Posts: 3,745 Group: Members Member #16 Joined: Dec 6, 2012 Mood Angry	We are the native people of Kurdistan. We didn't came from anywhere, we always were there. We have fought against kingdoms, empires, regimes and republics in order to gain our freedom and after thousands of years of oppression, hundreds of millions of our enemies didn't accomplish their ultimate goal: exterminating the Kurds, the Huart, the Medes. Whatever you call it, they are our ancestors and we will not let them down. Neither will the hundreds of millions of Kurds the upcoming thousands of years, long after we are gone. Nothing and nobody can destroy us. We are a pure, noble and brave nation.



jjmuneer	8th June 2013 - 03:17 AM Post #3
KSS Salar Posts: 7,779 Group: Senior Members Member #158 Joined: May 30, 2013 Mood None	Worldwar2boy 8th June 2013 - 01:09 AM We are the native people of Kurdistan. We didn't came from anywhere, we always were there. We have fought against kingdoms, empires, regimes and republics in order to gain our freedom and after thousands of years of oppression, hundreds of millions of our enemies didn't accomplish their ultimate goal: exterminating the Kurds, the Huart, the Medes. Whatever you call it, they are our ancestors and we will not let them down. Neither will the hundreds of millions of Kurds the upcoming thousands of years, long after we are gone. Nothing and nobody can destroy us. We are a pure, noble and brave nation. Well we Kurds have alot of central Asian ancestry from the indo-Iranians and also minor NE European input. I nthe south there is SW Asian input aswell near the Kerkûk region. Though yes Kurds have been in West Asia for atleast 2000+, or atleast as a united ethnicity.



jjmuneer	8th June 2013 - 03:19 AM Post #4
KSS Salar Posts: 7,779 Group: Senior Members Member #158 Joined: May 30, 2013 Mood None	I don't agree with Hamma Mirwaisa because he does live in a fantasy world. He states Kurds are completely Median which is jsut incorrect



RawandKurdistani	8th June 2013 - 04:06 AM Post #5
Surchi/Xoshnawi Posts: 4,479 Group: Elite Member #3 Joined: Nov 17, 2012 Mood None	I don't like this guy, he spends way too much time talking about the Iranic race and "brotherhood" between Kurds and Persians.



jjmuneer	8th June 2013 - 04:44 AM Post #6
KSS Salar Posts: 7,779 Group: Senior Members Member #158 Joined: May 30, 2013 Mood None	RawandKurdistani 8th June 2013 - 04:06 AM I don't like this guy, he spends way too much time talking about the Iranic race and "brotherhood" between Kurds and Persians. Because he isn't a Historian, Anthropology or a Geneticst. I've read his book on the "return of the Medes", it's poetic spirutalist history more than anything. It includes Iranic Sagas and myths more than facts on Kurdsih history. Personally I promote a Iranic union that involve a democratic Persia and is a front, rather than one nation imposing eachother on another.



RawandKurdistani	8th June 2013 - 04:53 AM Post #7
Surchi/Xoshnawi Posts: 4,479 Group: Elite Member #3 Joined: Nov 17, 2012 Mood None	jjmuneer 8th June 2013 - 04:44 AM RawandKurdistani 8th June 2013 - 04:06 AM I don't like this guy, he spends way too much time talking about the Iranic race and "brotherhood" between Kurds and Persians. Because he isn't a Historian, Anthropology or a Geneticst. I've read his book on the "return of the Medes", it's poetic spirutalist history more than anything. It includes Iranic Sagas and myths more than facts on Kurdsih history. Personally I promote a Iranic union that involve a democratic Persia and is a front, rather than one nation imposing eachother on another. There will never be an Iranic union, the Persians are nothing more than liars with an ideology of recreating the Persian empire in the 21th century. I don't wanna have anything to do with them, cut off the communications as far as possible, they are not to be trusted.



jjmuneer	8th June 2013 - 05:18 AM Post #8
KSS Salar Posts: 7,779 Group: Senior Members Member #158 Joined: May 30, 2013 Mood None	RawandKurdistani 8th June 2013 - 04:53 AM jjmuneer 8th June 2013 - 04:44 AM Quoting limited to 2 levels deep There will never be an Iranic union, the Persians are nothing more than liars with an ideology of recreating the Persian empire in the 21th century. I don't wanna have anything to do with them, cut off the communications as far as possible, they are not to be trusted. Heval I know what you mean and it isn't just the Islamic republic, ironically the islamic republic are the only sincerce regime Iran has had. Atleast when they kill Kurds they say they do it in the name of iranian shiaism and the state, unlike Pahlavis. Anyway I believe in blood relationships but I agree we cannot trust them, so we must ensure some political and military barrier.



ALAN	8th June 2013 - 11:42 AM Post #9
Posts: 26,731 Group: Admins Member #1 Joined: Nov 16, 2012 Mood Cool	RawandKurdistani 8th June 2013 - 04:53 AM jjmuneer 8th June 2013 - 04:44 AM Quoting limited to 2 levels deep There will never be an Iranic union, the Persians are nothing more than liars with an ideology of recreating the Persian empire in the 21th century. I don't wanna have anything to do with them, cut off the communications as far as possible, they are not to be trusted. i agree with you 100%



the SUN child	9th June 2013 - 11:18 PM Post #10
ZAGROS-ARYAN Posts: 2,771 Group: Senior Members Member #33 Joined: Jan 2, 2013 Mood None	brendar 8th June 2013 - 12:42 AM Huart evolved to Kurt and Kurt in time evolved to Kurd. Yeah, he's right. We are the DIRECT descendants of the Medes. And the Medes are/were NATIVE to Kurdistan. Although I don't agree with him on that Kurd evolved from Huart. According to me Kurd evolved from Kurmanji. Before Kurds referred themselves as Kurds they called themselves Kurmanji first. Kurmanji means sons (offspring) of the Medes



jjmuneer	10th June 2013 - 05:06 AM Post #11
KSS Salar Posts: 7,779 Group: Senior Members Member #158 Joined: May 30, 2013 Mood None	the SUN child 9th June 2013 - 11:18 PM brendar 8th June 2013 - 12:42 AM Huart evolved to Kurt and Kurt in time evolved to Kurd. Yeah, he's right. We are the DIRECT descendants of the Medes. And the Medes are/were NATIVE to Kurdistan. Although I don't agree with him on that Kurd evolved from Huart. According to me Kurd evolved from Kurmanji. Before Kurds referred themselves as Kurds they called themselves Kurmanji first. Kurmanji means sons (offspring) of the Medes That is illogical, because Kurds drift towards central Asian genetically, more so with eastern Kurds who are closer to Central Asia. There is no point making up lies based on nationalist feelings, history should be neutral and viewed in such a light.



Xoybun	10th June 2013 - 09:37 AM Post #12
PERMANENTLY BANNED Posts: 0 Group: Members Member #15 Joined: Dec 5, 2012 Mood None	jjmuneer 10th June 2013 - 05:06 AM the SUN child 9th June 2013 - 11:18 PM Quoting limited to 2 levels deep That is illogical, because Kurds drift towards central Asian genetically, more so with eastern Kurds who are closer to Central Asia. There is no point making up lies based on nationalist feelings, history should be neutral and viewed in such a light. Not true.



jjmuneer	11th June 2013 - 09:01 PM Post #13
KSS Salar Posts: 7,779 Group: Senior Members Member #158 Joined: May 30, 2013 Mood None	Dlovan 10th June 2013 - 09:37 AM jjmuneer 10th June 2013 - 05:06 AM Quoting limited to 2 levels deep Not true. What isn't true?



Xoybun	12th June 2013 - 12:14 AM Post #14
PERMANENTLY BANNED Posts: 0 Group: Members Member #15 Joined: Dec 5, 2012 Mood None	jjmuneer 11th June 2013 - 09:01 PM Dlovan 10th June 2013 - 09:37 AM Quoting limited to 2 levels deep What isn't true? Central Asian drift towards Kurds genetically, not the other way around.



jjmuneer	12th June 2013 - 12:34 AM Post #15
KSS Salar Posts: 7,779 Group: Senior Members Member #158 Joined: May 30, 2013 Mood None	Dlovan 12th June 2013 - 12:14 AM jjmuneer 11th June 2013 - 09:01 PM Quoting limited to 2 levels deep Central Asian drift towards Kurds genetically, not the other way around. Where did you get that from?



jjmuneer	12th June 2013 - 12:59 AM Post #16
KSS Salar Posts: 7,779 Group: Senior Members Member #158 Joined: May 30, 2013 Mood None	Here is the study : Quote: The Kurds speak an Iranian language. Their traditional homeland, known as Kurdistan, includes some regions in the present-day nations of Turkey (southeastern quadrant), Syria (northeastern corner), i-rack (northern areas), and Iran (western areas) and small numbers have lived in parts of Armenia and Azerbaijan. Kurds were promised an independent nation in 1920 by the Treaty of Sèvres but never got one. The Kurds' identity — even their use of the Kurdish language — was widely suppressed in Turkey and Syria. In i-rack beginning in the 1990s the Kurds managed to assert their political autonomy but they are still part of that country and since the fall of Saddam Hussein they've reintegrated into the countrywide i-racki political system. Genetic analysis has shown that the Kurdish people are closely related to the Azeri, Armenian, Georgian, and Jewish peoples, descending from some common ancestors in the northern Near East region. Some of the studies cited below have haplogroup frequencies for various populations of Kurds. We can add to that small-scale results from Family Tree DNA's "Kurdish DNA Project"; at present the following Y-DNA (paternal DNA) haplogroups were found among its members: G2a, I1, J1, R1a1a, and one instance of Q. Major studies of Kurds S. Farjadian and A. Ghaderi. "HLA class II similarities in Iranian Kurds and Azeris." International Journal of Immunogenetics 34:6 (December 2007): pages 457-463. First published online on October 4, 2007. Abstract: "The genetic relationship between Kurds and Azeris of Iran was investigated based on human leukocyte antigen (HLA) class II profiles. HLA typing was performed using polymerase chain reaction/restriction fragment-length polymorphism (PCR/RFLP) and PCR/sequence-specific primer (PCR/SSP) methods in 100 Kurds and 100 Azeris. DRB11103/04, DQA10501 and DQB10301 were the most common alleles and DRB11103/04-DQA10501-DQB10301 was the most frequent haplotype in both populations. No significant difference was observed in HLA class II allele distribution between these populations except for DQB10503 which showed a higher frequency in Kurds. Neighbor-joining tree based on Nei's genetic distances and correspondence analysis according to DRB1, DQA1 and DQB1 allele frequencies showed a strong genetic tie between Kurds and Azeris of Iran. The results of amova revealed no significant difference between these populations and other major ethnic groups of Iran. No close genetic relationship was observed between Azeris of Iran and the people of Turkey or Central Asians. According to the current results, present-day Kurds and Azeris of Iran seem to belong to a common genetic pool." Ivan Nasidze, D. Quinque, M. Ozturk, N. Bendukidze, and Mark Stoneking. "MtDNA and Y-chromosome variation in Kurdish groups." Annals of Human Genetics 69:4 (July 2005): pages 401-412. Abstract: "In order to investigate the origins and relationships of Kurdish-speaking groups, mtDNA HV1 sequences, eleven Y chromosome bi-allelic markers, and 9 Y-STR loci were analyzed among three Kurdish groups: Zazaki and Kurmanji speakers from Turkey, and Kurmanji speakers from Georgia. When compared with published data from other Kurdish groups and from European, Caucasian, and West and Central Asian groups, Kurdish groups are most similar genetically to other West Asian groups, and most distant from Central Asian groups, for both mtDNA and the Y-chromosome. However, Kurdish groups show a closer relationship with European groups than with Caucasian groups based on mtDNA, but the opposite based on the Y-chromosome, indicating some differences in their maternal and paternal histories. The genetic data indicate that the Georgian Kurdish group experienced a bottleneck effect during their migration to the Caucasus, and that they have not had detectable admixture with their geographic neighbours in Georgia. Our results also do not support the hypothesis of the origin of the Zazaki-speaking group being in northern Iran; genetically they are more similar to other Kurdish groups. Genetic analyses of recent events, such as the origins and migrations of Kurdish-speaking groups, can therefore lead to new insights into such migrations." Their sample of 114 Kurds from Turkey (Zaza and Kurmanji Kurds) had the following Y-DNA (paternal DNA) haplogroup frequencies, among others: F = 10.5% P1 = 6.1% P = 5.3% Carlos Flores, Nicole Maca-Meyer, Jose M. Larruga, Vicente M. Cabrera, Naif Karadsheh, and Ana M. Gonzalez. "Isolates in a corridor of migrations: a high-resolution analysis of Y-chromosome variation in Jordan." Journal of Human Genetics 50 (2005): pages 435-441. This study is mainly about the people of Jordan, but also compares them to other populations in the region. It includes a sample of 251 Kurds from Anatolia (modern Turkey), and these Kurds' Y-DNA (paternal DNA) haplogroup distributions were as follows: J2-M172 = 19.9% F*-M89 = 14.3% R1a1-M17 = 12.4% R1-M173 = 11.2% J1-M267 = 11.2% P-M45 = 10% T-M70 = 4.8% E1b1b1a-M78 = 4% E1b1b1c-M123 = 4% G-M201 = 2% Lluís Quintana-Murci, Raphaëlle Chaix, R. Spencer Wells, Doron M. Behar, Hamid Sayar, Rosaria Scozzari, Chiara Rengo, Nadia Al-Zahery, Ornella Semino, A. Silvana Santachiara-Benerecetti, Alfredo Coppa, Qasim Ayub, Aisha Mohyuddin, Chris Tyler-Smith, S. Qasim Mehdi, Antonio Torroni, and Ken McElreavey. "Where West Meets East: The Complex mtDNA Landscape of the Southwest and Central Asian Corridor." American Journal of Human Genetics 74:5 (May 2004): pages 827-845. (mirror) This study included Kurds from Iran and Turkmenistan. In common with other peoples from west of the Indus Valley, the Kurds were found to have predominantly mtDNA types from western Eurasia. Excerpts from the study: "Interestingly, Kurds from Turkmenistan showed the lowest frequencies of eastern Eurasian lineages (9%) in Central Asia, in sharp contrast to the local Turkmen population. [...] A search for two significantly differentiated population clusters revealed one group consisting of all populations from the Anatolian/Caucasus region and the Iranian plateau (including the Kurds from Turkmenistan), and a second group made up of populations from the Indus Valley and Central Asia (FCT=0.021; P<.001)." Almut Nebel, Dvora Filon, Bernd Brinkmann, Partha P. Majumder, Marina Faerman, and Ariella Oppenheim. "The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East." The American Journal of Human Genetics 69:5 (November 2001): pages 1095-1112. (mirror) Multiple Jewish populations were compared with, among others, Kurds from i-rack. 1.1% of the Kurds sampled were found to possess the Cohen Modal Haplotype (CMH) that's common in the Jewish groups. Moreover, the Cohen Modal Haplotype is remarkably close to the Most Frequent Muslim Kurdish Haplotype (MKH), with 5 out of the 6 markers identical and very close on the remaining marker. This Most Frequent Muslim Kurdish Haplotype is found among 9.5% of Kurds but also among 2.6% of Sephardic Jews, 2.0% of Kurdish Jews, and 1.3% of Ashkenazic Jews, as well as 1.4% of Palestinian Arabs. Altogether, the evidence in the paper suggests a significant degree of common ancestry for the Israelites and the Kurds, as their common genetic types did not appear to emerge from more recent intermarriages between the populations. An excerpt from the abstract: "In comparison with data available from other relevant populations in the region, Jews were found to be more closely related to groups in the north of the Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turks, and Armenians) than to their Arab neighbors." In this study, Nebel et al. found the following Y-DNA (paternal DNA) haplogroup frequencies among Kurds from South Kurdistan: J2 = 28.4% R1b = 16.8% I = 16.8% R1a = 11.6% J1 = 11.6% E1b1b = 7.4% G = 4.2% T = 3.2% Martin Richards, Vincent Macaulay, Eileen Hickey, Emilce Vega, Bryan Sykes, Valentina Guida, Chiara Rengo, Daniele Sellitto, Fulvio Cruciani, Toomas Kivisild, Richard Villems, Mark Thomas, Serge Rychkov, Oksana Rychkov, Yuri Rychkov, Mukaddes Gölge, Dimitar Dimitrov, Emmeline Hill, Dan Bradley, Valentino Romano, Francesco Calì, Giuseppe Vona, Andrew Demaine, Surinder Papiha, Costas Triantaphyllidis, Gheorghe Stefanescu, Jiri Hatina, Michele Belledi, Anna Di Rienzo, Ariella Oppenheim, Søren Nørby, Nadia Al-Zaheri, Silvana Santachiara-Benerecetti, Rosaria Scozzari, Antonio Torroni, and Hans-Jürgen Bandelt. "Tracing European Founder Lineages in the Near Eastern mtDNA Pool." American Journal of Human Genetics 67:5 (November 2000): pages 1251-1276. Various populations in the Near East were studied for their mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). Among those sampled were "53 Kurds from eastern Turkey". Many of these Kurds belonged to the mtDNA haplogroup U5, which is also common among Azeris, Ossetians, Armenians, and Europeans, but not very common among other peoples of the Near East. David Comas, Francesc Calafell, Nina Bendukidze, Lourdes Fañanás, and Jaume Bertranpetit. "Georgian and Kurd mtDNA sequence analysis shows a lack of correlation between languages and female genetic lineages." American Journal of Physical Anthropology 112:1 (May 2000): pages 5-16. Excerpts from the abstract: "Mitochondrial DNA sequences from Georgians and Kurds were analyzed in order to test the possible correlation between female lineages and languages in these two neighboring West Eurasian groups. Mitochondrial sequence pools in both populations are very similar despite their different linguistic and prehistoric backgrounds. Both populations present mtDNA lineages that clearly belong to the European gene pool, as shown by 1) similar nucleotide and sequence diversities; 2) a large number of sequences shared with the rest of European samples; 3) nonsignificant genetic distances; and 4) classification of the present lineages into the major European mtDNA haplogroups already described. [...]" http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/kurds.html



Xoybun	12th June 2013 - 01:52 AM Post #17
PERMANENTLY BANNED Posts: 0 Group: Members Member #15 Joined: Dec 5, 2012 Mood None	jjmuneer 12th June 2013 - 12:59 AM Here is the study : Quote: The Kurds speak an Iranian language. Their traditional homeland, known as Kurdistan, includes some regions in the present-day nations of Turkey (southeastern quadrant), Syria (northeastern corner), i-rack (northern areas), and Iran (western areas) and small numbers have lived in parts of Armenia and Azerbaijan. Kurds were promised an independent nation in 1920 by the Treaty of Sèvres but never got one. The Kurds' identity — even their use of the Kurdish language — was widely suppressed in Turkey and Syria. In i-rack beginning in the 1990s the Kurds managed to assert their political autonomy but they are still part of that country and since the fall of Saddam Hussein they've reintegrated into the countrywide i-racki political system. Genetic analysis has shown that the Kurdish people are closely related to the Azeri, Armenian, Georgian, and Jewish peoples, descending from some common ancestors in the northern Near East region. Some of the studies cited below have haplogroup frequencies for various populations of Kurds. We can add to that small-scale results from Family Tree DNA's "Kurdish DNA Project"; at present the following Y-DNA (paternal DNA) haplogroups were found among its members: G2a, I1, J1, R1a1a, and one instance of Q. Major studies of Kurds S. Farjadian and A. Ghaderi. "HLA class II similarities in Iranian Kurds and Azeris." International Journal of Immunogenetics 34:6 (December 2007): pages 457-463. First published online on October 4, 2007. Abstract: "The genetic relationship between Kurds and Azeris of Iran was investigated based on human leukocyte antigen (HLA) class II profiles. HLA typing was performed using polymerase chain reaction/restriction fragment-length polymorphism (PCR/RFLP) and PCR/sequence-specific primer (PCR/SSP) methods in 100 Kurds and 100 Azeris. DRB11103/04, DQA10501 and DQB10301 were the most common alleles and DRB11103/04-DQA10501-DQB10301 was the most frequent haplotype in both populations. No significant difference was observed in HLA class II allele distribution between these populations except for DQB10503 which showed a higher frequency in Kurds. Neighbor-joining tree based on Nei's genetic distances and correspondence analysis according to DRB1, DQA1 and DQB1 allele frequencies showed a strong genetic tie between Kurds and Azeris of Iran. The results of amova revealed no significant difference between these populations and other major ethnic groups of Iran. No close genetic relationship was observed between Azeris of Iran and the people of Turkey or Central Asians. According to the current results, present-day Kurds and Azeris of Iran seem to belong to a common genetic pool." Ivan Nasidze, D. Quinque, M. Ozturk, N. Bendukidze, and Mark Stoneking. "MtDNA and Y-chromosome variation in Kurdish groups." Annals of Human Genetics 69:4 (July 2005): pages 401-412. Abstract: "In order to investigate the origins and relationships of Kurdish-speaking groups, mtDNA HV1 sequences, eleven Y chromosome bi-allelic markers, and 9 Y-STR loci were analyzed among three Kurdish groups: Zazaki and Kurmanji speakers from Turkey, and Kurmanji speakers from Georgia. When compared with published data from other Kurdish groups and from European, Caucasian, and West and Central Asian groups, Kurdish groups are most similar genetically to other West Asian groups, and most distant from Central Asian groups, for both mtDNA and the Y-chromosome. However, Kurdish groups show a closer relationship with European groups than with Caucasian groups based on mtDNA, but the opposite based on the Y-chromosome, indicating some differences in their maternal and paternal histories. The genetic data indicate that the Georgian Kurdish group experienced a bottleneck effect during their migration to the Caucasus, and that they have not had detectable admixture with their geographic neighbours in Georgia. Our results also do not support the hypothesis of the origin of the Zazaki-speaking group being in northern Iran; genetically they are more similar to other Kurdish groups. Genetic analyses of recent events, such as the origins and migrations of Kurdish-speaking groups, can therefore lead to new insights into such migrations." Their sample of 114 Kurds from Turkey (Zaza and Kurmanji Kurds) had the following Y-DNA (paternal DNA) haplogroup frequencies, among others: F = 10.5% P1 = 6.1% P = 5.3% Carlos Flores, Nicole Maca-Meyer, Jose M. Larruga, Vicente M. Cabrera, Naif Karadsheh, and Ana M. Gonzalez. "Isolates in a corridor of migrations: a high-resolution analysis of Y-chromosome variation in Jordan." Journal of Human Genetics 50 (2005): pages 435-441. This study is mainly about the people of Jordan, but also compares them to other populations in the region. It includes a sample of 251 Kurds from Anatolia (modern Turkey), and these Kurds' Y-DNA (paternal DNA) haplogroup distributions were as follows: J2-M172 = 19.9% F*-M89 = 14.3% R1a1-M17 = 12.4% R1-M173 = 11.2% J1-M267 = 11.2% P-M45 = 10% T-M70 = 4.8% E1b1b1a-M78 = 4% E1b1b1c-M123 = 4% G-M201 = 2% Lluís Quintana-Murci, Raphaëlle Chaix, R. Spencer Wells, Doron M. Behar, Hamid Sayar, Rosaria Scozzari, Chiara Rengo, Nadia Al-Zahery, Ornella Semino, A. Silvana Santachiara-Benerecetti, Alfredo Coppa, Qasim Ayub, Aisha Mohyuddin, Chris Tyler-Smith, S. Qasim Mehdi, Antonio Torroni, and Ken McElreavey. "Where West Meets East: The Complex mtDNA Landscape of the Southwest and Central Asian Corridor." American Journal of Human Genetics 74:5 (May 2004): pages 827-845. (mirror) This study included Kurds from Iran and Turkmenistan. In common with other peoples from west of the Indus Valley, the Kurds were found to have predominantly mtDNA types from western Eurasia. Excerpts from the study: "Interestingly, Kurds from Turkmenistan showed the lowest frequencies of eastern Eurasian lineages (9%) in Central Asia, in sharp contrast to the local Turkmen population. [...] A search for two significantly differentiated population clusters revealed one group consisting of all populations from the Anatolian/Caucasus region and the Iranian plateau (including the Kurds from Turkmenistan), and a second group made up of populations from the Indus Valley and Central Asia (FCT=0.021; P<.001)." Almut Nebel, Dvora Filon, Bernd Brinkmann, Partha P. Majumder, Marina Faerman, and Ariella Oppenheim. "The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East." The American Journal of Human Genetics 69:5 (November 2001): pages 1095-1112. (mirror) Multiple Jewish populations were compared with, among others, Kurds from i-rack. 1.1% of the Kurds sampled were found to possess the Cohen Modal Haplotype (CMH) that's common in the Jewish groups. Moreover, the Cohen Modal Haplotype is remarkably close to the Most Frequent Muslim Kurdish Haplotype (MKH), with 5 out of the 6 markers identical and very close on the remaining marker. This Most Frequent Muslim Kurdish Haplotype is found among 9.5% of Kurds but also among 2.6% of Sephardic Jews, 2.0% of Kurdish Jews, and 1.3% of Ashkenazic Jews, as well as 1.4% of Palestinian Arabs. Altogether, the evidence in the paper suggests a significant degree of common ancestry for the Israelites and the Kurds, as their common genetic types did not appear to emerge from more recent intermarriages between the populations. An excerpt from the abstract: "In comparison with data available from other relevant populations in the region, Jews were found to be more closely related to groups in the north of the Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turks, and Armenians) than to their Arab neighbors." In this study, Nebel et al. found the following Y-DNA (paternal DNA) haplogroup frequencies among Kurds from South Kurdistan: J2 = 28.4% R1b = 16.8% I = 16.8% R1a = 11.6% J1 = 11.6% E1b1b = 7.4% G = 4.2% T = 3.2% Martin Richards, Vincent Macaulay, Eileen Hickey, Emilce Vega, Bryan Sykes, Valentina Guida, Chiara Rengo, Daniele Sellitto, Fulvio Cruciani, Toomas Kivisild, Richard Villems, Mark Thomas, Serge Rychkov, Oksana Rychkov, Yuri Rychkov, Mukaddes Gölge, Dimitar Dimitrov, Emmeline Hill, Dan Bradley, Valentino Romano, Francesco Calì, Giuseppe Vona, Andrew Demaine, Surinder Papiha, Costas Triantaphyllidis, Gheorghe Stefanescu, Jiri Hatina, Michele Belledi, Anna Di Rienzo, Ariella Oppenheim, Søren Nørby, Nadia Al-Zaheri, Silvana Santachiara-Benerecetti, Rosaria Scozzari, Antonio Torroni, and Hans-Jürgen Bandelt. "Tracing European Founder Lineages in the Near Eastern mtDNA Pool." American Journal of Human Genetics 67:5 (November 2000): pages 1251-1276. Various populations in the Near East were studied for their mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). Among those sampled were "53 Kurds from eastern Turkey". Many of these Kurds belonged to the mtDNA haplogroup U5, which is also common among Azeris, Ossetians, Armenians, and Europeans, but not very common among other peoples of the Near East. David Comas, Francesc Calafell, Nina Bendukidze, Lourdes Fañanás, and Jaume Bertranpetit. "Georgian and Kurd mtDNA sequence analysis shows a lack of correlation between languages and female genetic lineages." American Journal of Physical Anthropology 112:1 (May 2000): pages 5-16. Excerpts from the abstract: "Mitochondrial DNA sequences from Georgians and Kurds were analyzed in order to test the possible correlation between female lineages and languages in these two neighboring West Eurasian groups. Mitochondrial sequence pools in both populations are very similar despite their different linguistic and prehistoric backgrounds. Both populations present mtDNA lineages that clearly belong to the European gene pool, as shown by 1) similar nucleotide and sequence diversities; 2) a large number of sequences shared with the rest of European samples; 3) nonsignificant genetic distances; and 4) classification of the present lineages into the major European mtDNA haplogroups already described. [...]" http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/kurds.html The study is trying to de-Kurdify Kurds. Don't trust these studies. A nationalist Kurd must do these studies, then they are trust-worthy.



the SUN child	12th June 2013 - 01:56 AM Post #18
ZAGROS-ARYAN Posts: 2,771 Group: Senior Members Member #33 Joined: Jan 2, 2013 Mood None	jjmuneer 10th June 2013 - 05:06 AM the SUN child 9th June 2013 - 11:18 PM Quoting limited to 2 levels deep That is illogical, because Kurds drift towards central Asian genetically, more so with eastern Kurds who are closer to Central Asia. There is no point making up lies based on nationalist feelings, history should be neutral and viewed in such a light. NOT true. Central Asia received genetic material (like Y-DNA hg. J2a and R1a) from Kurdistan. That's why there're connections between Central Asia and Kurdistan. But of course there was some gene flow from Central Asia into Kurdistan, like there was some gene flow from the Caucasus into Kurdistan. Or from the west into Kurdistan… Kurds ARE native to Kurdistan. And the Medes WERE/ARE also native to Kurdistan! Edited by the SUN child, 12th June 2013 - 01:58 AM.



the SUN child	12th June 2013 - 02:00 AM Post #19
ZAGROS-ARYAN Posts: 2,771 Group: Senior Members Member #33 Joined: Jan 2, 2013 Mood None	Kurdish types of Y-DNA hg. J2 & R1a etc. were also the same of the Medes. We Kurds received most of our haplogroup form the Medes!



the SUN child	12th June 2013 - 02:12 AM Post #20
ZAGROS-ARYAN Posts: 2,771 Group: Senior Members Member #33 Joined: Jan 2, 2013 Mood None	Kurdish Y-DNA J2a, like R1a is ARYAN. Also OLDEST subclades of R1a (m420) have been found in Kurdistan! http://kurdishdna.blogspot.nl/2013/05/r1a-tree.html Edited by the SUN child, 12th June 2013 - 02:15 AM.



jjmuneer	12th June 2013 - 02:15 AM Post #21
KSS Salar Posts: 7,779 Group: Senior Members Member #158 Joined: May 30, 2013 Mood None	Dlovan 12th June 2013 - 01:52 AM jjmuneer 12th June 2013 - 12:59 AM Here is the study : Quoting limited to 2 levels deephttp://www.khazaria.com/genetics/kurds.html The study is trying to de-Kurdify Kurds. Don't trust these studies. A nationalist Kurd must do these studies, then they are trust-worthy. Lol these are respected studies, studies that have been supported by the entire genetic community. Show me one study that opposes it.



jjmuneer	12th June 2013 - 02:16 AM Post #22
KSS Salar Posts: 7,779 Group: Senior Members Member #158 Joined: May 30, 2013 Mood None	the SUN child 12th June 2013 - 01:56 AM jjmuneer 10th June 2013 - 05:06 AM Quoting limited to 2 levels deep NOT true. Central Asia received genetic material (like Y-DNA hg. J2a and R1a) from Kurdistan. That's why there're connections between Central Asia and Kurdistan. But of course there was some gene flow from Central Asia into Kurdistan, like there was some gene flow from the Caucasus into Kurdistan. Or from the west into Kurdistan… Kurds ARE native to Kurdistan. And the Medes WERE/ARE also native to Kurdistan! What study or piece of evidence do you have that R1a in West Asia outdates that of central asia?



the SUN child	12th June 2013 - 02:17 AM Post #23
ZAGROS-ARYAN Posts: 2,771 Group: Senior Members Member #33 Joined: Jan 2, 2013 Mood None	jjmuneer 12th June 2013 - 02:16 AM the SUN child 12th June 2013 - 01:56 AM Quoting limited to 2 levels deep What study or piece of evidence do you have that R1a in West Asia outdates that of central asia? m420 is thousands years older than z93 and z283. http://kurdishdna.blogspot.nl/2013/05/r1a-tree.html Edited by the SUN child, 12th June 2013 - 02:20 AM.



jjmuneer	12th June 2013 - 02:33 AM Post #24
KSS Salar Posts: 7,779 Group: Senior Members Member #158 Joined: May 30, 2013 Mood None	the SUN child 12th June 2013 - 02:17 AM jjmuneer 12th June 2013 - 02:16 AM Quoting limited to 2 levels deep m420 is thousands years older than z93 and z283. http://kurdishdna.blogspot.nl/2013/05/r1a-tree.html Exactly my point. It is older than R1a-z93, which Kurds possess. I'm glad we agreed.



the SUN child	12th June 2013 - 02:37 AM Post #25
ZAGROS-ARYAN Posts: 2,771 Group: Senior Members Member #33 Joined: Jan 2, 2013 Mood None	jjmuneer 12th June 2013 - 02:33 AM Exactly my point. It is older than R1a-z93, which Kurds possess. I'm glad we agreed. Huh?? What are you talking about??? Did you check the link I showed you??? "From the SNP distribution of the "FTDNA R1a1a and subclades project" we know that the oldest branches of R1a were also found in West Asia." http://kurdishdna.blogspot.nl/2013/05/r1a-tree.html



0 users reading this topic

ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community. Learn More · Sign-up Now
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Kurdistan History · Next Topic »

Pages:
1
2
3