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| The Origin of Kurds by Ferdinand Hennerbichler | |
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| Topic Started: 11th February 2013 - 06:30 AM (8,344 Views) | |
| Qandil | 11th February 2013 - 06:30 AM Post #1 |
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Have any of you read his book? If yes, has anything new been found out about our ancestors? Link to his book (pdf. file): I like how Turks say e.g a Southern Kurd is not genetically the same as a Northern Kurd, but the above book totally disapproves them.
Edited by Qandil, 11th February 2013 - 06:40 AM.
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| Deleted User | 11th February 2013 - 08:54 AM Post #2 |
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Deleted User
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Very accurate and detailed account of Kurdish Indo-European ancestry, although it seems from the overview he disregards the native caucasian speaking ancestors of the Kurds. |
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| the SUN child | 11th February 2013 - 03:34 PM Post #3 |
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ZAGROS-ARYAN
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Yeah, I know this study. It's close, but no cigar. Too much oriented on R1a. And fails to mention that the Kurds (Medes) are closer to Persians than to Armenians. While Persians are much more mixed with the ELAMITES than with the Hurrians. But it's true that there're 2 types of R1a in Kurdistan. 1 type is native to 'IRAN' and other came (backmigration) from Northern Caucasus with the NorthWest Iranic folks like the Cimmerians and the Alanians. Those R1a Iranics that backmigrated from the North Caucaus brought also Y-DNA hg. 'I' and some North Caucasus subclades of 'J2' with them. Kurds are for about 25% North West Iranic (Alanian, Cimmerian etc.) and about 50% Median. And the last 25%: Elamite, Summerian, Hurrian & Semitic (Chaldean & Jewish).  
Edited by the SUN child, 11th February 2013 - 03:36 PM.
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| Deleted User | 12th February 2013 - 02:40 AM Post #4 |
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Deleted User
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What are the sub-clades for those two R1a types in Kurdistan? |
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| the SUN child | 12th February 2013 - 04:22 AM Post #5 |
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ZAGROS-ARYAN
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 1 type is derived from Z283 and other type is derived from Z93. NorthEast Caucasus (north of the Caspian Sea) Iranic tribes like Cimmerians, Alanians belonged to both of them. Also they carried other haplogorps like I2a, G2 and J2a. (Just look to a haplogroupdistribution in Bulgaria and Ukraine, there’s lots of hg I2a & J2a there). West Iranic tribes to the south of the Caspian Sea like the Medes and Persians belonged mostly to a native 'Iranic Plateau' Z93 subclade of R1a. The Medes were mostly R1a (Z93), J2a along with some minor very ancient native haplogroups from Southern Zagros like 'J1' & 'T'. What the article mentioned by the OP fails to mention that lots of Y-DNA haplogroup J2a in Kurds is from the Iranic Medes and NOT from the Hurrians. And that Kurds are closer to the Ossetians and Persians than to Armenians or Jews. Nice blogspot page on R1a written by 'Palisto': http://kurdishdna.blogspot.nl/2013/01/r1a1a-str111-tree.html 
Edited by the SUN child, 12th February 2013 - 04:34 AM.
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| Deleted User | 12th February 2013 - 04:48 AM Post #6 |
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Deleted User
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Who drew that map? Because Z283 is non-existant in Kurds and it's highest concentration is in Poland. R1a-z93 is the Scythian/Median marker, also concentrated the highest in central Asia. |
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| the SUN child | 12th February 2013 - 06:13 AM Post #7 |
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ZAGROS-ARYAN
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Don’t know found it somewhere online. But it has been told that early original R1a from 'NorthWest Iran' entered Europe from West Asia. Yeah, Z283 is an European type of R1a. But there's some of it in Kurdistan. And the article posted by 'Dewran' mentioned that there’s some Z283 in Kurdistan. I believe it was brought by the same folks that also brought hg. I2a with them. According to that article Z283 was in Kurdistan before (Median) Z93. According to me NorthWest Iranic tribes heavily mixed with the Pontic-Caspian Steppes population, like Alanians & Scytho-Sarmatians that wandered in the Pontic-Caspian Steppes brought these (Z283, I2a and some North Caucasus J2a) haplogroups with them.
Edited by the SUN child, 12th February 2013 - 06:15 AM.
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| Deleted User | 12th February 2013 - 06:20 AM Post #8 |
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Deleted User
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R1a-z283 is found in Kurdistan but at a very low frequency and in North Kurdistan where the Scythians settled in from South Russia. They however probably inter-mingled with Slavonic tribes. |
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| the SUN child | 12th February 2013 - 06:34 AM Post #9 |
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ZAGROS-ARYAN
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Yes Cimmerians, Scytho-Sarmatians brought it with them. Like I mentioned, I believe that Kurds have for about 25% of these tribes in their DNA. Those NorthWest Iranic peoples mixed with the native Pontic-Caspian Steppes population and had both Z283 & Z93 in them, along with I2a, J2a and G2a. The Medes were mostly Z93 + J2a & G2, with some minor J1 & T from South Zagros. At the time of the Iranic Scytho-Sarmatians & Cimmerians, Slavic tribes didn't existed. Pure Balto-Slavic peoples are an admix of hg. 'I', 'N1c' and 'R1a' (Z283).
Edited by the SUN child, 12th February 2013 - 06:36 AM.
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| Xoybun | 13th February 2013 - 01:52 AM Post #10 |
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Serok
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Persians are in no way related to us. We are more evolved than those rats. |
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| the SUN child | 13th February 2013 - 04:09 AM Post #11 |
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ZAGROS-ARYAN
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Yeah, Persians are disgusting rats lowest of the lowest. They rather help Turkic people than their Iranic kinsmen. They're traitors of their own race and deserve to be exterminated. But it's a fact that Persians are genetically, culturally and historically much closer to us Kurds than Armenians are to Kurds, although Armenians have lots of Kurdish and Iranic DNA in them. |
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| Xoybun | 13th February 2013 - 04:19 AM Post #12 |
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Serok
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Not true, I can't prove that we are genetically, culturally and historically closer to Persians than any race. What I know is that if I say we are not close to each other, and we have nothing in common, then facts won't help. Even if someone says that we are genetically close to each other, it's not true. These are all lies. |
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| the SUN child | 13th February 2013 - 04:26 AM Post #13 |
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ZAGROS-ARYAN
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Ok. Although I do agree with you that we Kurds are different and form our different ethnic group / race and have nothing to do with Armenians either  Kurds are one of the most ancient Iranic (Median) people and are of Kurdic race! 
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| Worldwar2boy | 7th March 2013 - 07:23 AM Post #14 |
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Kurdistan, Yan Naman.
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[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Meyers_b11_s0476a.jpgp/img] |
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| the SUN child | 8th March 2013 - 02:59 AM Post #15 |
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ZAGROS-ARYAN
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Doesn’t matter what other say. Especially those little childish unknown and uneducated little trolls on internet. Believe in and always be yourself, no matter what the say. I’m 100% sure that those who called themselves Aryans spoke a proto-Kurdic Iranic language and had the same ancient religion as native Zagrosian Aryans Kurds do have. Never forget that native Kurdic language and our native Kurdic religion (Yezidism) is Aryan. |
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| the SUN child | 8th March 2013 - 03:01 AM Post #16 |
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ZAGROS-ARYAN
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Our ancestors called themselves Aryans and we Kurds are all-round Aryans. |
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| the SUN child | 2nd June 2013 - 01:03 AM Post #17 |
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ZAGROS-ARYAN
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Palisto has updated his blog. It seems that the OLDEST clades of R1a (M420) has been found in KURDISTAN! http://kurdishdna.blogspot.nl/2013/05/r1a-tree.html |
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