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| CARS in Kurdistan; For car enthusiasts | |
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| Topic Started: 1st December 2012 - 09:29 AM (23,322 Views) | |
| ALAN | 14th February 2013 - 02:36 AM Post #26 |
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nice GT-R in SK
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| Deleted User | 14th February 2013 - 03:24 AM Post #27 |
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These cars are just being imported by foriegn firms and goes to the very rich few, Alan you should know that only a few of the wealthy possess such cars. |
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| ALAN | 14th February 2013 - 03:36 AM Post #28 |
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yeah i never claimed everyone can afford these, but its good to see people can afford them now alot compared to my time |
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| Deleted User | 14th February 2013 - 03:42 AM Post #29 |
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True Alan, but my concern is with the way the wealth of Kurdistan is being managed, ovbiously when you enter Hewlêr you will not notice poverty, but there is un-deniable poverty in certain parts of the city aswell as in rural areas. There needs to be a serious re-distrubution of wealth in SK, either through regulation, taxation or setting the quota on the luxury goods the rich are able to purchase. You may think these measures are extreme, but I fear there will be a large amount of the population that is not in the media spotlight simply because they don't have flashy cars. Reality of Hawler is that yes there is development and FDI'Foriegn direct investment' occurring from foriegn companies, but this wealth is mostly going back to the host countries or a few people. You see these development projects of hotels and malls or leisure centres, but yet when you look at the staff most of them are foriegn either western Europeans or South Asians/East Asians. Most of Hawler is for show, because the odinary person cannot afford to go to a mall every week or go to a hotel. |
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| ALAN | 14th February 2013 - 03:50 AM Post #30 |
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i hear what you saying but a country like US has poverty and certain parts of cities and even certain states are poor or poorer than the others, and don't forget KRG is not a state yet once becomes one, has its own independent oil route exporting 1 million bpd, things will be much more better then the lower class will have a regular social security that can live like a normal citizen. |
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| Deleted User | 14th February 2013 - 03:56 AM Post #31 |
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I hope so my friend, but the problem is people like you who have been fooled into thiniking economics is a matter of there must be poor and there must be rich in a society have a functioning and growing economy, which is 100% incorrect. Even free market economists says it themselves. Alan America is hardly a good example of a country SK should follow. Because in America they hardly give you social welfare, and the state says 'everyone for themselves', regardless of if you have a mother who is dying. You have to pay or no help is coming. As a nationalist it must be a duty of all Kurds to be treated equally, both socially and economically, hence 100% income eqaulity must take into effect. In practice it is not really that hard to implement, it is just a matter of then having land reforms that are equal both in value and in terms of size. In my idealistic world Barzani would be getting paid the same as a cleaner, and you may think this is wrong, but a Kurd is Kurd, and work is work. One cannot place value over one sector or industry, simply because it requires more education, it may be that that particular industry/sector is much more valuable to lets say cleaning. It still doesn't render it right to get paid higher, because your work is all in the name of the people and the nation, and must never be in your name. That is called working for self-interest, or greed. (and no personal disrespect to you, but you should read a few books on economics, and understand scarcity ecnomics). |
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| ALAN | 14th February 2013 - 04:10 AM Post #32 |
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no, you missed the point, i have not been fooled by anyone lol, i just meant it in the context that the most powerful country has poor, a semi-state like KRG will have poor as well, the only state that doesnt have poor is Dubai, but you dont even think Dubai is a good example to follow. i want KRG to follow S.Korea, but even they have poor people, poorness sometimes comes from the peoples lack of effort as well. my cousin for eg in SK was poor in 2010, 3 years later on he has bought a place, car everything me in Australia for 13 years i dont have he got in 3 years, why? cos KRG helps you if you have a job, gives you home loan, personal loan and business loan, but if you cant make use of it, then yes you will stay poor. some families dont have young boy/girls in their families to go and work for them, but this is where KRG income can come in, but until those pipelines are built and KRG gets all of the profits itself, it cant provide for everyone. remember KRG most residents are not users not inventors. they mostly rely on a Gov income not private sector, and they dont even want to go private sector, this is not KRG's fault, you are talking as if KRG has been a stable state since the fall of the ottoman empire, KRG was pretty much a shithole like the i-rack we know it till it introduced the new investment law in 2007. these mass booms etc there only stated from 2007, even in 2008,9 KRG looked pretty much like i-rack. and before 2003 the region had an international embargo and an embargo from i-rack itself. dont forget that. |
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| Deleted User | 14th February 2013 - 05:25 AM Post #33 |
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Alan I know what your telling me, you think people can change their own economic status by working hard, whether in USA or India or SK, which is a capitalist argument made on numerous occassions, but right-wing politicans who they themselves ironically as politicans are living off the government's money. :lol: My point is not that the KRG are growing or not, or that the KRG are wealthy or not, because just take Cuba for example. They have GDP growth, and not neccesarily at a rapid rate, but none the less they are in positive growth, and they probably have one of the best Healthcare systems aswell education systems in the world. Aswell as one of the most equal income distrubutions in the world. So it brings me back onto my point that KRG can be developed already like the USA for 200 years, but it doesn't make inequality correct or the rich minority who just so happened to be "lucky" in possessing a large amount of wealth. For your argument that "poorness is because a lack of effort", well that is not the case. Because how do you exactly measure effort? A banker or a business consultant may be earning millions and putting in little effort, whilst a street cleaner or gets paid a wage just about to survive could put all the effort in the world, because his job is a matter of life or dead. Now this brings me onto the question on how you can measure "effort", because "effort" alone cannot render someone to have a higher wage, and if it did it would be the street cleaner earning millions; whilst the banker close to nothing. I think what your talking about is 'Human capital', which is the level of education or the productivity of a worker. That may be a scientific way of utilizing who gets a higher wage, but frankly the money system in the future will be wiped out, and replaced on a system of tokens, allocated to everyone based on their needs. What you say about the KRG is un-true, because the KRG are not in control of the oil in the KRG, nor are they in complete control of the capital in the KRG, most of it is owned by the private foriegn firms. The revenue the KRG recieves is mostly from taxation of the oil with a few domestic Kurdish firms being involved. So that argument that "there isn't enough revenue for everyone to be getting money from the government" is untrue, because my argument is not that. My argument is that the government should be 100% directly in control of those industries in the first place, hence they will have complete control over wages. With this they would be able to make wages equal across the broad and regardless of industry. That is what you must understand, because yes the KRG currently cannot utilize wages as they please or provide economic incentives in the manner they please, that is because most industries in Kurdistan aren't under the KRG's direct control, but at the hands of foriegn companies. So the only revenue the KRG generates is from taxes, rather than the actual economic revenue the oil industry generates. That is my point, that if the KRG had control of these industries, the KRG could provide for everyone and utilize the budget in acomplete and unicen way to the areas of society that need it the most, I.e children, poor, eldery, disabled etc... Your first point about your brother getting a loan from the KRG was going to bring me ont my other argument, that goes agaisnt what you said earlier about "people being poor being of a lack of effort". This is the 'Poverty trap', where there is a cycle of poverty, so poverty breeds poverty. Say if your brother got the loan from the KRG, but this time he could not pay back the interest. Now what would the KRG's reaction be? To clean the debt? Of course not, they will continue to demand more with an increase of interest. So what happens to your brother? He gets into more debt, and the cycle continues. This applies to poverty aswell, if you have a family who is poor in a poor area, where education is at a poor standard and healthcare is neglected. You get a cycle of that family being poor for generations and having bad health. |
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| ALAN | 14th February 2013 - 02:31 PM Post #34 |
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ok first of what is with the laguhters ? if you cant chat in a series manner dont chat so you dont have to laugh. :thumbsup: Effort can make someone earn more. if a street sweeper has no qualification, this could possibly mean he quit school at young age, and in Kurdistan school, college Uni are all free, if this person put in "effort" to study today he would be in a good position. people were poor in my time trust me i lived the sanction era in Kurdistan from 1991 till 1998. and it was ugly, people were poor directly cos of the sanctions poeple had no food to eat, but ever since it was lifted from 2003, things started for better and those who made the efforts to earn an extra penny it paid off. a lot of people bought houses with $10,000 which is not much really these days, and few years later the house price flew to $50k and more, this is called putting in efforts my friend. my family had the money but they were scared and did not put in their effort to do a similar move they had to buy a house for $70k while they could buy the same house several years ago for half price. so dont get all funny when you see people in SK buying nice cars and living their lives, you should be happy if anything not upset and try to bring excuse to cover up it, people became better off since after the sanction was lifted and lots of people invested in things i mentioned and now they earn more. and there will always be a case where some people will be better off than the other because those who are usually put in more efforts to gain what they have, some have it from their ancestors. but i will tell you right now , in KRG there is hardly poor people in 2013, i am not saying there arent , but even those so called poor suburbs are not poor, they have nice cars they eat the best food, maybe they cant afford to buy $80k houses but when the chance was there they didnt grasp it. really you should be happy that 1 part of Kurdistan is well off and people are getting richer, cos they are ruled by kurds not arabs persians or turks who steal all our health and buy weapons with it to only kill us with it. if it was not for persians EK will live very much the same as SK, why is EK so poor may i actually ask? why is everyone in Kirmashan and Ilam poor? why do they cities look like deserted towns!? whose fault is that!? the people or the Gov! or both !? so when you see people in SK who have these cars, some are originally rich the rest got rich doing investments in properties, not those who had money and did not invest like my family and uncles are now average. the whole point of 20 years of war our Peshmerga done against irack was for the same reasons, so people can live their lives however they want, now when you see people with nice cars this should not be seen from a disguise specially from other parts of Kurdistan, PKK is fighting turks so kurds in NK could live the same way, you cant tell people how to live and spending their money, since most people in SK got the money legitimately i see no harm in them spending their money however they like it, but i cant say the same for EK, since persians are corrupting kurds their via doing illegal business and you know what i mean. so when you see these cars dont assume KRG gives them the money, no they got the money themselves some got more cos they put in more efforts. Now let me compare two cousins of mine. girl cousin she is a doctor and she is a hardcore study person. she earns 3-5 million dinars a month. my guy cousin quit school from year 10, has no qualification cos he was lazy and did not want to put in "effort" he is a personal driver and gets 500,000 dinars p/m. effort can make you earn money. my friend who finished IT there is now working in Asiacell earning close to 1.5 million dinars p/m. my other mate who quit school again for lazybones and lack of effort is working in a fruit shop earning 400,000. i think you want kurds in KRG to live like EU bums , sit on paltalk all day long and get benefits. no my friend people in Kurdistan need to be (bekar ber) not (bekar hêner). the key progress in KRG is private sector, this is why KRG is working its ass off to bring in investments so that locals can go and get jobs. some are going to get paid cos they made more "efforts" in their lives studying in college Uni etc... but those with lesser qualifications "lesser efforts" will gain less. some invested their money after the sanctions were lifted and now earn more those who thought it was risky are now average. this has noting to do with KRG. nowhere in the world a street sweeper earns more than a teacher , it aint gonna happen jj. about the oil income and that foreign investment takes all the money , this is utter crap sorry jj. KRG is LANDLOCKED 1st of all, it has no choice but to give a more lucrative deals compared to i=rack who do have access to sea, and have 3 oil routes to export their oil while KRG doesnt. you are talking about KRG as if its been a state for decades with no sanctions. you didnt even read my post when i said all of this started only from 2007 when the genius "investment law" was invented. so for the last time KRG MUST give the IOC a more lucrative deal to attract them to work and invest in there vs i-rack, who have been a state for 90 years with all the oil, industry infrastructure they have and they are still a failure compared to KRG , cos the way you are comparing things is blaming KRG for not controlling its oil 100% and its industry sounds like you are telling me i-rack can but KRG cant !? or who are you comparing KRG to on this occasion ? i would like to know your view on this. as for providing pension etc.. yes KRG does give a pension to people with disabilities, gives them their specific aids etc... KRG gives students 150k dinars p/m here in Australia students get that but in college Uni etc... you are on your own so really the money they give you here which is $150 AUSD p/m is only good for your petrol, books, tutors stationary are all on you and are damn expensive. a text book price in college starts from $80 up, in KRG it is FREE. KRG can do lil in its industry as well, since saddam never built any factories in Kurdistan unlike the arab i-rack there are factories even if they are not operational but they are there and can be restored if the milki wasnt so busy giving all of i-rack's money to feul the syrian war, not to get out of topic, my point is KRG is spending all the 17% budget it gets from i-rack onto the people. can you tell me what do you know about KRG benefits to its citizens to begin with !? |
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| Deleted User | 14th February 2013 - 07:43 PM Post #35 |
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So you don't find the comment I made ironic? And I'm being completely serious, because it is politicans who "manage the country" in such a in-efficient way purposely that corrupt countries always develop. Most cases the government believes the people are there to serve them.
Your still measuring effort based on past-events or circumstances. You state the street cleaner cleaner left school at an early age, how do you know that was the street cleaners fault? What if the school got shut down? What if he had family problems? What if he had a disability that prevented him from advancing onto higher education? So again no doubt the banker or the doctor has a higher human capital evel than the street cleaner, but that doesn't render the street cleaner as having less effort in his/her work, than a doctor. That is why your getting confused and eed to distuingsh bewteen human capital and comittiment, because it was not the street cleaners duty at a young age to be educated, but the governments duty to provide free and equal education. That gave him skills to be utilized in the industry most productive to society. Alan you still don't get what I'm telling you. Houses were cheap before ok, that is because there wasn't a demand for houses before and the area was un-developed. There are still plenty of poor people in SK who aren't property owners or property developers. That is why it is the duty of the government to completely re-distrubute land so that everyone gets a equal amount of land. Equality with land can be measured with the value of the land aswell as the size of the land, or the productivity of each inidivual plot of loand. And you also miss my point, because that is exactly what I'm attempting to state with you, that the SK government did not provide these jobs or wealth, the foriegn western companies did. Because the KRG are not producting Mercedes or BMWs. Leading onto my point that it can't be that everyone or alot of people are benefiting from this spike in demand for cars, only a rich few are. As by them purchasing those cars, the opprtunity cost of those rich businessmen spending that money into investment projects or development projects in poorer parts of the countries become reduced. Did you state there is hardly any poor people in the KRG? I think you will find there is plenty of poor people in the KRG, I have seen it myself. Just look at SK's GDP per capita, most people are ovbiously poor, because the GDP per capita just Adds populations and divides it by total nominal GDP equalling the GDP Per capita. I'm sure you will agree with me then if there are little poor people in Kurdistan, that a taxi driver doesn't get paid as much as a hotel manager or large landowner? And that is what you fail to see, that the monetary system in place that is mimicking the rest of the world should be re-examined and thought out into a fair and equal ssytem of tokens.
I'm not sure what you mean by getting richer, but I'll assume you mean there GDP is increasing, which is the same in many countries, but I'm not sure you checked KRG is a LEDC. No Kurds in the KRG suffer from Absolute poverty, but most from Relative poverty, which is a fact. I never denied that the KRG was governed by Kurds, and this argument isn't a political one, but an economic one. The KRG however mostly doesn't have any controls over it's industries and freely allows foriegn oil companies to extract and exploit the oil at a very cheap price, without and reservations for oil. You don't need to say I'm wrong here, because the KRG admit it themselves. Your talking about Ilam being poor, the government are ovbious to blame. But I'm not sure what you mean by "poor", because the peopel of Ilam are happy to live a Nomadic Pastrolist lifestyle, so development is not on the minds of the people. However Iran does cut back fiscally on the budget Ilam recieves, however this goes back to my main point that the KRG is doing the same or infact isn't acting at all. People get their money legitmately? And what is that exactly? Last time I checked most of that money comes from oil money, if it's Peshmerga recieving a wage, most likely from oil money. Because the KRG pays their wage, but the KRG gain that revenue from taxes on oil, because they have no control of the oil. And what you don't understand is that I believe there should be no monetary system involving money at all, it should be a system based upon merits and needs, wants come in when the country has reached is maximum economic capacity and is able to produce an excess amount of goods.
Exactly I'm the one saying the KRG doesn't give them money, my point is the foriegn companies set the wages. And there is no "for themselves", the foriegn companies give them a wage, as the worker does not possess the wealth in the first place. That is why I reccomended you read Karl Marx.
You completely ignore the situation of the person, the circumstances, the demand for the area of labour the person wishes to enter, the levels of human capital the person possess, the productivity of the person, but you have your opinion I have mine.
Nope quite the opposite exactly, get an equal wage regardless of field of speciality and work in an area based on their best utilizition within that area. Europe is hardly a socialist safe haven, but yes the Scando countries have a pretty good social welfare system.
Why not? Give me one practical reason to why it couldn't happen? Because last time I checked there isn't any. |
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| ALAN | 27th February 2013 - 01:33 PM Post #36 |
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this is real not Photoshop my fav car GTR  |
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| ALAN | 8th March 2013 - 08:42 AM Post #37 |
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drift in Hawler
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| Brendar | 8th March 2013 - 09:33 AM Post #38 |
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Thats better now. A place for those drifters is really important. This way, there will be less accidents too. I love it. |
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| ALAN | 8th March 2013 - 09:56 PM Post #39 |
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for Ferrari lovers
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| FeyliKurd | 9th March 2013 - 02:22 AM Post #40 |
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Alîşerwanî
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Edited by FeyliKurd, 9th March 2013 - 02:27 AM.
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| ALAN | 9th March 2013 - 12:00 PM Post #41 |
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my fav pic
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| FeyliKurd | 9th March 2013 - 10:36 PM Post #42 |
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Alîşerwanî
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Here's the car in action.  |
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| ALAN | 12th March 2013 - 03:59 PM Post #43 |
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it says Kurdistan in Sorani
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| FeyliKurd | 13th March 2013 - 06:40 PM Post #44 |
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Alîşerwanî
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| ALAN | 18th March 2013 - 01:30 AM Post #45 |
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| ALAN | 9th April 2013 - 10:03 AM Post #46 |
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king of cars in Duhok
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| ALAN | 10th April 2013 - 09:07 AM Post #47 |
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my fav corolla ever lol
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| ALAN | 10th April 2013 - 09:17 AM Post #48 |
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car yard - Sulaimani
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| ALAN | 23rd April 2013 - 09:26 AM Post #49 |
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Ferrari 458 italia in Hewlêr
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| ALAN | 28th April 2013 - 01:16 PM Post #50 |
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sorry I'm into Jap cars thus this is my dream car 
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6:31 PM Nov 19